Friday, November 18, 2011

What Does the Battle Flag Mean?

For weeks I carried on with an intriguing task of observing, engaging and debating points of view with certain people belonging to the Facebook group Southern Heritage Preservation Group (SHPG). One thing I learned is that this group is in actuality a Confederate Heritage group as they overlook the other two hundred plus years of Southern History (only counting since independence). Then one day, much to my displeasure, I found that I could no longer access their fine group. I had been blocked. Blocked by the very group that expresses rage and claims censorship when their comments are removed from certain sites. In simple  terms, as Historian Michel-Rolph Trouillot would say, I had been silenced. Thankfully and mainly because of the internet's usage as a playground, I worked my way back to a point of observation once more. Keep in mind that I cannot engage or debate anymore, I only have the ability to observe. Tonight is my first look at SHPG since my hiatus and I found some statements and materials right off the bat.


I would agree with Connie's statement. Not wholeheartedly of course. The flag does have a Confederate and American South history behind it. What that history is interpreted as is another matter.  I have seen the flag in photos across the globe. It is heavily recognized as more than just "A symbol of the Confederacy and the American South" but also  one of secession and disunion. This can be observed in Italy even today.  There is however much more to the flag. Something that Connie ignores in her own context and explains that this other outlook is merely rednecks and bigots taking over the flag and using it for personal gain. Nonetheless, this other interpretation exists and deserves to be studied and recognized as having a history with the Confederate Battle Flag.






It needs to be realized that the Confederate Battle Flag (CBF) is also very much associated with the Ku Klux Klan. It can be, and has in the past been seen as a symbol of racism. I realize that might not have been the intent just as much as I realize the American flag can bee seen in that context. 


The Ku Klux Klan did use the American flag as their symbol for years until about 1940 when they began heavy use of the CBF.  Confederate Heritage advocates will also be the first to deflect the issue of slavery under the CBF by stating that slavery existed forever under the American flag. This is also true. No one denies or doubts this at all. So the real question is why does the American flag not carry the image of "racism" or the image of "slavery" in the manner that the CBF does.

Well, to take a shot as to why, my guess would be that the United States government under the American Flag at one point or another was proactive is doing away with these absurdities.

Emancipation Proclamation - Freed slaves in the South, allowed Blacks to fight for the Union

13th Amendment - Abolished Slavery

The Force Acts of 1870 - In this act, the government banned the use of terror, force or bribery to prevent people from voting because of their race 

Civil Rights Act 1964 - outlawed major forms of discrimination against blacks and women, including racial segregation. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public ("public accommodations").

That's not the Confederate Guard





Now I will say, because I am sure that I will hear the argument or statement, that the United States has had its fair share of bigotry. With that bigotry though, came the responsibility to do right and right it did on several occasions. I think we can put the United States Flag argument to rest but I would like to turn back to the CBF for a moment. Though advocates will outright deny slavery's HUGE involvement in starting the Civil War, it is a fair argument that the CBF is less associated with that institution. It was the soldier's flag, not the Confederate Nation's flag. It was also certain groups that used the CBF to promote racism and not the Confederacy (Though the large portion of those groups resided in the former Confederacy). It is important to remember that symbols carry with them multiple meanings and the addition of more people can mean even more interpretations. 

His interpretation costs 20k CLICK HERE

So the question is why should they be ashamed? Well, you shouldn't be. If you are a particular person that has ancestry which does not include slavery but merely fighting for your home, there is no reason to be ashamed. Keep in mind however, that some find your symbol offensive.



As the above shows, the Nazis totally ripped off the Hindus. The difference is, you don't see many Hindus flying their symbol as 60ft banners near the interstate or putting them on t-shirts. It might have something to do with 6 million people dying but that's just a guess. Perhaps the key is consideration. Several hundred thousand people were in bondage, and perhaps view that flag as a chain holding them down. So many were hurt, killed, and not allowed freedoms in the 20th century; and most of them recognize the flag as a reminder of that. Consideration is the key word of the day.






7 comments:

  1. Who determines what something symbolizes?
    Is the symbolic meaning of an object relative?
    A gun can be a symbol of death...Or self defense.
    Hitler can be synonymous with great leadership or overweening tyranny.
    At the end of the day,as determined by Plato's allegory of the cave; in the truest essence of the phrase; we see only what we want to see or rather what they allow us to see. Do not follow the herd, think for your self. Its not illegal yet.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Which somewhat plays into the concept of symbols having different meanings for different people.
    Thanks for the comment. Very philosophically in tuned.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Philosophizing is fantastic and I wholeheartedly endorse it, but that line of thinking only goes so far. Realistically anyone can have a symbol mean anything to them that they want to, but unfortunately the world isn't full of relativistic thinkers at this time. It would be fantastic to live in a world where everyone saw symbols relatively and the swastika was as meaningless as any other symbol to absolutely everyone.

    The unfortunate reality is that if I walk around with a swastika on my chest people will get offended and there will be repercussions for me as a member of any community I might be a part of that isn't antisemitic or Hindu. The same goes for the confederate flag. As nice as it would be to be entirely devoid of the trappings of cultural identity it has to be taken into consideration.

    Yes I can still wear this symbol and do as I please regardless of the opinions of others, but it still affects them in some way. Hence I agree strongly with the point of consideration, that's what this is really about. It doesn't matter what the symbol means to you, you can keep that to yourself or discuss that in a philosophical setting, what matters is what it means to the general public and those you encounter around you. Be considerate of their feelings towards the symbol, if you're trying to make a point then that is your consideration, but be aware and expect that they will react negatively.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Thank you Joey.

    To live in a world where everyone realized that a symbol does not necessarily mean the same for every person would be a Utopian idea. Currently we are in a state of mind that shares opinions (though sometimes not necessarily a bad thing)and meanings. The Swatztika is seen as anti-semetic. The Confederate Flag carried with it the identifications of slavery and racism; and yes to certain circles heritage.

    I am glad you agreed with the idea of consideration though. It was the main point behind the entire post.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Im going to have to disagree with some of the content of this article. I appreciate you being willing to point out that the American flag has been used by KKK/Aryan resistance groups. This is a true historical fact, and it is also true that the Battle flag has been used by these groups. However im going to have to disgaree with your satement that the american is not found as offensive because under the american flag, with certian laws being passed, civil rights were given to blacks, but under tha Battle flag, bigotry, slavery and racism still exist. Number one,the Emancipation proclomation, did not free one slave,heres why. The Emancipation Proclamation related only to those areas held under the control of the Confederacy. The South succeded and broke away from the North, therefore President Lincoln couldn't make slave owners living in the Confederate states of America do anything! The Emancipation did not do one thing! Do you know that the emancipation proclomation was made in Jan 1 1863, but there were over 400,000 slave owners in the Union army that did not surrender there slaves until December 18, 1865. One of those men was Ulysses S Grant, he refused to give up his slave until the 13th amendment was passed. Number two, do you Realize that Lincolcn himself declared that the wars was not over slavery. Yes, infact he stated "If i could preserve the union without freeing one slave I would do it." Lincolns main concern was preserving the union, not fighting for slaves rights. Infact Lincoln Himself in his speech in Charollt Illinois, stated that if slaves were to be free that the owners whould be reimbursed with money, and that Blacks could not live equally in the same land. Infact lincolns policy was to colonize blacks back to Africa! You want Racism? why not start with thwe stars and stripes? Number three, the flag people get so upset about was never ever known as the "confederate Flag". There are 4 different flag designs that flew as the national flag, the Bonnie Blue, stainless banner, the blood stained banner, the Stars and Bars,by the way the stars and bars look nothing like the battle flag, and the Battle flag everyone gets offended by never flew as a govenrment flag. The battle flag was instituted for one reason and one rason only, the stars and bars looked alot like the stas and stripes when folded and amisdt the smoke and fog of gunpowder. therefore they created the battle flag to stand out in battle. The battle flag never flew over one slaveship or slave caravan. Nor did it fly over any government entity that lawfully held slaves. Therefore to say that the battle flag is a symbol of racism and slavery is ignorance of historical fact. However the american flag flew over many slave trade ships cruelly bringing slaves back to this country. The american flag flew over the state governments that legalized the beating and cruel treatment of slaves for over 230 years! Is it true that this same govenrment passed civil rights Laws giving blacks equality? Yes,but it took millions of blacks rising up and saying "NO MORE" to get them to do it! if it had not been for black resistance to the racist bigotry of our government, it would still be that same today. infact even after the laws were passed, many of the same politicians in washington were stilled racist, did not like blacks and some were even still a part of the KKK, and other White Pride groups! So,if you want to applaud the American flag as not being racist go right ahead! But do not use the symbol of my for fathers sacrifice to justify your cry of racism and bigotry!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Drew thanks for your comment and interest. I am going to respond point by point.

      The South succeded and broke away from the North, therefore President Lincoln couldn't make slave owners living in the Confederate states of America do anything! The Emancipation did not do one thing!

      I'm sorry but that is a drastic distortion of the truth. The South attempted a secession movement. The legality of which is debated by a lot of scholars. To say there was no authority is debated as well. The Emancipation Proclamation was a political war measure. Whether or not it freed a slave is nearly irrelevant. What it did do is MAKE the Civil War about slavery. It pushed it to the forefront. By doing this, countries like Great Britain became even more hesitant about joining a war on the side of the South. This is because Britain spent a long time stamping out slavery in their empire. It would be a bad political move for them to get into the war on the side bent on keeping slaves.

      Do you know that the emancipation proclomation was made in Jan 1 1863, but there were over 400,000 slave owners in the Union army that did not surrender there slaves until December 18, 1865. One of those men was Ulysses S Grant, he refused to give up his slave until the 13th amendment was passed.

      I would love the citation that points to Grant owning a slave that he "refused to give up." It is known that Grant acquired a slave known as William Jones. Instead of selling him, as Grant desperately needed the money, he gave him his freedom. This came long before the 13th amendment. As for the 400,000 slaves, those were primarily located in the border states. These states were occupied by the North to prevent secession. Can they really be counted as Union?

      Number two, do you Realize that Lincolcn himself declared that the wars was not over slavery. Yes, infact he stated "If i could preserve the union without freeing one slave I would do it." Lincolns main concern was preserving the union, not fighting for slaves rights.

      Yes I do realize that. As I stated above, the Emancipation proclamation is a political war measure that changed the focus of the war.

      Infact Lincoln Himself in his speech in Charollt Illinois, stated that if slaves were to be free that the owners whould be reimbursed with money, and that Blacks could not live equally in the same land. Infact lincolns policy was to colonize blacks back to Africa! You want Racism? why not start with thwe stars and stripes?

      I would like a citation for these speeches that you know of. But even if they are true, you are equating racism with slavery. Although the two are connected, they have to be analyzed separately. One can be against slavery but not the equality of races. Lincoln himself was a member of the American Colonization Society because he believed that whites and free blacks could not coexist in the same areas. I have yet to see any evidence that this means demanded deportation which is what some anti-Lincolnites say it does.

      Delete
    2. Number three, the flag people get so upset about was never ever known as the "confederate Flag". There are 4 different flag designs that flew as the national flag, the Bonnie Blue, stainless banner, the blood stained banner, the Stars and Bars,by the way the stars and bars look nothing like the battle flag, and the Battle flag everyone gets offended by never flew as a govenrment flag. The battle flag was instituted for one reason and one rason only, the stars and bars looked alot like the stas and stripes when folded and amisdt the smoke and fog of gunpowder. therefore they created the battle flag to stand out in battle. The battle flag never flew over one slaveship or slave caravan. Nor did it fly over any government entity that lawfully held slaves. Therefore to say that the battle flag is a symbol of racism and slavery is ignorance of historical fact.

      I know quite well the history of the Confederate Battle Flag and the different flags used to recognize the Confederate Government. However, staying on topic, the Confederate Battle Flag was a recognized military flag flying in advance of an army determined to maintain the social order. It's history since that date speaks for itself in regards to racism.

      However the american flag flew over many slave trade ships cruelly bringing slaves back to this country. The american flag flew over the state governments that legalized the beating and cruel treatment of slaves for over 230 years! Is it true that this same govenrment passed civil rights Laws giving blacks equality? Yes,but it took millions of blacks rising up and saying "NO MORE" to get them to do it! if it had not been for black resistance to the racist bigotry of our government, it would still be that same today. infact even after the laws were passed, many of the same politicians in washington were stilled racist, did not like blacks and some were even still a part of the KKK, and other White Pride groups!

      You are correct. Racism, slavery, and other monstrous violations of human rights existed under the American flag. But, the American government shed those sins and have continued to be proactive (related to this context of course) in regards to these Civil Rights. It is also not because millions of blacks stood up. The Civil War was not about the millions of blacks that rallied. Revolts like that would have been put down. The CIvil Rights movement can be connected to that kind of protest. It was. Yet in the face of those that stood up, which flag was the banner of their opposition?

      So,if you want to applaud the American flag as not being racist go right ahead! But do not use the symbol of my for fathers sacrifice to justify your cry of racism and bigotry!

      I don't remember applauding any flag. I try not to martyr flags and symbols. I think you should reread the post and think about the points being made. Your comment is an ill thought out rant.

      Delete

Blog Archive

You May Also Like